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17 Jun 2022 14:12:48
Ed01 I've been interested in your observations about goal keepers who look good on camera but if they were actually that good they wouldn't need to make the eye pleasing saves in the first place. As I've mentioned to you before I grew up in a house were there was no much live footy on so Sunday and Serie A I was in my element. I remember inter keeper Piagluca ( sorry about the spelling) was very athletic and was picked for the national team whereas Sebastiano Rossi for Milan was 3rd choice at best. I always found this strange as when on the rare occasions Milans defence was breached he barely had to move as he was in the right place. Then a few years later Buffon came along. Now I'm not one to disrespect such a great keeper but I think he was injured during euro 2000 and Toldo of Fiorentina came in. He wasn't as flashy as Buffon bur for me he was hands down the best keeper in that tournament. What do you think so many people (managers included) seem to rate style over substance?
{Ed001's Note - because it is easy to spot a keeper making a full-length diving save, but not so easy to notice his positioning to see if he made it look spectacular. People tend to follow the ball when they watch football and not many people are able to see two things at once, so they see the ball fly towards the goal from the shot and the save. What they haven't looked at is what the goalie did before making the save. Positioning takes knowledge to understand as well, plus the ability to triangulate in your mind where the keeper should have been and where he actually was from the views you get to see.
What you end up with is people just seeing the surface of the matter, rather than looking more closely and seeing all of it. It is very similar to the way stats are used constantly with no context, it is the context that makes the stat useful but no one uses any. It is the same with goalkeeping, it is the context of where they are positioned, what has happened with the ball to move the keeper around to maybe put him out of position etc etc. No one wants to add the context surrounding it as that takes thought and effort to apply. It is so much easier to say keeper A makes more saves than keeper B so must be better, than it is to look at the reasons why A makes more saves to see if it is actually because he is not as good and so gets called upon more often.}
1.) 17 Jun 2022 15:55:39
Wow. I'd like to say I agree but my brain just exploded
{Ed001's Note - the biggest problem is the dumbing down of punditry, so no one is even pointing out for those kids who might be watching at home what to look for. So they are not learning the game like they should from knowledgeable people. Instead they are just being fed a diet of obtuse cliches and biased commentary.}
2.) 17 Jun 2022 17:49:45
It does amuse me when pundits consider tackling ability above game reading. It must be the same with goal keeping. A lot of my friends go on about Southall as the greatest ever keeper. I wouldn't know because I never really seen him except live when he was getting destroyed by Rushie but I always appreciate a keeper like Scmichel Sr who just plucked the ball out of thin air then set up an attack with an accurate throw out
{Ed001's Note - Southall was incredible, Schmeichel was good but whenever a player was 1 on 1 with him I always used to wonder why they never just rolled it along the ground when he did his starfish. Only Fowler ever seemed to cotton on to it and he had the beating of him because of it.}
3.) 17 Jun 2022 20:08:41
Appreciate your time Ed. As usual I feel a bit more educated
{Ed001's Note - cheers bb, I enjoyed the chat.}
4.) 18 Jun 2022 22:19:28
This actually reminds me of the time when Alisson made that incredible save against Napoli to get us through to the CL knockout rounds, and people played it down because the shot was supposedly straight at him, completely ignoring how quick he was on his feet to get himself in the perfect position so that the shot had nowhere to go but at him. In the very same breath, those people raved about an Ederson save against Shakhtar that same week purely because he had to sprawl and dive, which made it look a lot flashier than it needed to be.
5.) 21 Jun 2022 07:11:13
Ed may I ask which goalkeepers you would rate higher of Cech, Casillas, Buffon and van der Saar? :)
{Ed001's Note - Casillas was not that good so he is the lowest of them by a margin. To be truly fair it would depend on what team they are in. Van der Saar is the best with his feet and so would be better in a Man City-type but overall as a keeper I would just edge it to Cech before his head injury. However after his head injury he was never quite the same and was a little hesitant at times. So over the course of their career it has to be Buffon for his incredible consistency and longevity - he is still playing now! There is very little to choose between the three of them though and a lot of the choice would come down to what you wanted from your keeper.}
6.) 22 Jun 2022 11:05:42
Thanks for your reply. Of course I am far from objective in my assessment of the players, but I do agree that Cech is probably the one who had the highest peak.
I was never the biggest fan of van der Saar, but I heavily disliked him, so once again I cannot be objective in my assessment of him! ;)
{Ed001's Note - that is the problem, it is easy to get caught up in subjectivity and emotion when talking about footie. I used to be terrible for it, but as a kid my grandad would sit down and explain to me about how useful it was in important situations to be able to remove emotion and analyse things. He was one of, possibly the, first paramedic in the UK and taught paramedics and St John's Ambulance etc so for him he saw it as a matter of life and death, literally, to be able to shut off emotion and look at things completely objectively. He drummed it into me and so I can do the same about anything. It came in useful for exams and stuff like that, as when the pressure is on I can just carry on as normal. Sorry no idea why I just wittered on there!}
7.) 22 Jun 2022 22:11:46
Lovely anecdote - and definitely a nice view to have on it, and something I could use at times. I always love to hear more about you and the other Eds, so I only see it as a small treat! It's a bit funny how people interact so often on these pages and know almost nothing about each other apart from maybe which football clubs they support and maybe their nationality!
{Ed001's Note - that is a good point, it is amazing, but you would also be amazed how many moans get sent in when anyone tries to discuss anything else. I have realised that the most enjoyable sites to edit are those where they do talk about other things as well. People on there mostly interact more when they know a bit more about each other and are more polite to each other.}
8.) 24 Jun 2022 13:02:24
amazing take ed, i always used to watch the keeper and think it was his positioning rather than the save.but it was pure luck i thought that way rather than be someone who had actual knowledge.interested to think who you believe was better betwee buffon and oliver kahn and even neuer?
{Ed001's Note - it is difficult because they are 3 different eras. Kahn is old school before they were expected to be footballers as well, while Buffon is the inbetween era when they were just adapting. Neuer is one of the new school. It is very difficult to compare but the modern keeper does have the advantage of being able to play in the past, whereas older era keepers would struggle in the modern game. On that basis alone newer keepers should be better.
Kahn had great presence but I think Buffon was a better keeper than him, Kahn could get overenthusiastic and lose his calm. Neuer suffers with wrist problems which have lessened his ability.}
9.) 24 Jun 2022 16:04:19
fair take ed, i guess that's what the game is about evolution and everything should be better as we learn more and improve and adapt the game, tactics, inter changing positions like the cruyff teams did in the past from barcelona to mancity to liverpool i can see the game has become very technical, however i do miss the old punts from the GK to the stiker, through on goal moments :)
{Ed001's Note - there is something to be said for bits of the old game, I miss the blood and thunder tackles personally, not all the changes have been for the better.}
17 Jun 2022 20:08:41
Appreciate your time Ed. As usual I feel a bit more educated
{Ed001's Note - cheers bb, I enjoyed the chat.}
17 Jun 2022 17:49:45
It does amuse me when pundits consider tackling ability above game reading. It must be the same with goal keeping. A lot of my friends go on about Southall as the greatest ever keeper. I wouldn't know because I never really seen him except live when he was getting destroyed by Rushie but I always appreciate a keeper like Scmichel Sr who just plucked the ball out of thin air then set up an attack with an accurate throw out
{Ed001's Note - Southall was incredible, Schmeichel was good but whenever a player was 1 on 1 with him I always used to wonder why they never just rolled it along the ground when he did his starfish. Only Fowler ever seemed to cotton on to it and he had the beating of him because of it.}
17 Jun 2022 15:55:39
Wow. I'd like to say I agree but my brain just exploded
{Ed001's Note - the biggest problem is the dumbing down of punditry, so no one is even pointing out for those kids who might be watching at home what to look for. So they are not learning the game like they should from knowledgeable people. Instead they are just being fed a diet of obtuse cliches and biased commentary.}